New Order Mormon

[marek]

So I went into Primary today to speak about my missionary, focused on him being a servant for the Lord and finding so much joy. I spoke of what Jesus Christ did for us and how great gift it was. Never mentioned the word church, restoration or even the Book of Mormon.

Well, I was supposed to meet with the 1st counselor in between Jr and Sr. Primary, he wasn't in the foyer. Perhaps stepped out on purpose, I saw the bishop said hi, surprisingly uttering the word bishop softly. He asked me if I was there for my TR renewal. I said yes, and he invited me in to his office, I hesitantly walked in thinking the counselor was there and he would leave us there to use his office. He closed the door and no one else was there. I said I was supposed to meet with Bro. 123, and just stood there. I eventually sat down, He said I can take care of it and I said I know you can, but I had an appt. with so and so. he asked what was new in our lives, I didn't want to answer that and just was bit shocked, like they set this all up. No saying the other person got called to work or any reason why he would step in and take over this interview.

I answered all the questions, I felt like I was playing some sort of mind game, I hated the feeling of doing this like he is supposed to judge me as worthy to worship the Lord in the highest manner. I answered the ???'s according to my definitions and it was really no problem, but it just felt so stupid. I really felt that only God can judge our hearts and we know of our own worthiness before Him. When it came to sustaining local leaders, I hesitated, thought of my pastor and the new bishop where we hope to have our records moved to then said yes. He had a slight smirk on his face, when I eventually said yes, I am sure he was thinking he has control over me. This bishop really has no authority over me, but I know he thinks he does. I think he is not agreeing to release the records as a form of control as he said

[marek]

I was hoping I would get some input on what happened.... about the whole thing feeling like a set up. How would you describe it? Where did the counselor go? The bishop obviously thought he had the right to intervene. He asked how going to the Presbyterian church was. I told him it was wonderful and it brought us lots of joy and how my DH really came to Christ. He asked me if it changed my testimony, I told him it made it all the stronger. I know my testimony is based on Jesus Christ, not the church. He really doesn't need to know how I feel about the church or him, he should know I do nott trust or respect him, after what he did.

What I didn't like him asking was

[Mariposa]

Hmmmm sounds fishy to me. Don't count on your records being sent to any other than another L.D.S. ward. They will probably ask you to resign.It's funny I asked if I was being baptized into Christ or into the church and they replied the former but when you resign, your records including baptism are deleted. That is why I am being rebaptized by someone who doesn't belong to any denomination. I wish you luck with this.
_________________
we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, We prophecy of Christ, That our people may know whom to look to for redemption of their sins.

[Dathon]

It is possible that there was collusion before hand between the 1st counselor and the bishop. However, it is possible that something came up and the bishop happened to be there (possible if unlikely). The bishop may have pulled rank on the counselor so he could interview you personally. I know the feeling of being angry enough at an abusive bishop to go to war with him -- intellectually I understand that it's often a losing proposition for everyone involved and I ought to be better at ignoring arrogant leaders and ignoring them as much as possible -- but I have a strong aversion to unreasoned and arbitrary authority (and yes, I see the extreme irony! ).

I think you and your husband could approach the bishop of the ward you attend and arrange for all of you to meet with the stake president about moving your records to the ward you actually attend. You could diplomatically (of course) give several reasons you prefer your ward of choice rather than your geographically assigned ward. I suspect your old bishop may indeed want nominal credit for your son as a FT missionary from his unit. The ward your son left from gets some credit anyway whether your son reports in your new ward or not. It's likely your son will be asked to speak in several wards after his mission along with an assigned high council member anyway. I think it's worth asking for the change in records but not worth making a ruckus over, since that might embarrass your son. Further I think you and DH will come off better if you take the high road. If the bishop where you attend supports your request the SP may go along -- or the SP may say that the church doesn't do that anymore or that the matter is outside his authority, in which case you can appeal to the next level. I'd simply continue to attend the ward you are comfortable in and maybe even write to your son and his mission president explaining your situation somewhat and request the MP send the release information & paperwork to the ward you actually attend. You might just want to leave the aggravating bishop completely out of the loop on the matter and work around him and his attempts to intimidate or interfere.
_________________
"If God exists and His/Her best efforts for our happiness can be that easily thwarted by idiot humans, I am inclined to feel sympathetic at the frustration God would feel." --llave de látigo de Clay

[marek]

What do you mean by taking the high road? I am not getting things too well today, I know that is an expression but I am too tired to think.

I agree I see him as arbitrary authority, like a clown actually running his circus. I don't want to deal with him, and he is in my way. I had to go back to that ward to get it then he intercedes, I didn't like that. There was no reason I needed to see him for such, I guess I should feel lucky he even signed it for me, some might say.... those who think I am wrong to even try to have one.

We do no want him having any authority over our son or talking to him when he returns. I do know they go to SP to be released, but we don't like this clown of a bishop that we have. I think by husband will have to show up to SM to get the other new bishop to agree to request, maybe he doesn't want troublemakers like us or inactive or whatever they consider us .... I don't know. He does seem to be very welcoming, but hesitant as well. The old bishop yesterday said it was because the SP is "strict about rules like I told you.' It just seems like some three ring circus, this should not be a big issue.

I think I am going to send MP the new bishop's address, some of the other moms son's were asking for it , but my son hasn't. Is it true the MP needs this before they are released? We are in a different stake now that the one he left from, but supposedly he is asking all the missionaries for this information. I am not going to give him this clown's address, am I being a pain? I feel like I have a right to not give him any authority over our family, whatsoever! That is partly why the TR seemed like a joke, to me...some dumb game.

[Dathon]

By taking the high road I meant to imply avoiding direct conflict with the bishop who's been hassling you. Just ignore him as much as possible rather than engaging him -- that doesn't appear to be worth the aggravation.

[marek]

I thought that is what you meant, I just did that I wrote the MP and gave him the new Bishop's address.. hope taking the high road works at bypassing this man and the authority he think he has over us. Ironically, the thought of him having some is showing he is control of us still as we are letting it bother us. Anyhow, hope the direct contact with MP for release preparation works or at least point him in the right direction. I think I am going to find a new home address today, might as well look for my dream home. LOL

[Mafalda]

I meant to reply earlier but my comp crashed on me...anyways...what a bunch of crap!!!!

Just go to the new ward; have everything transfered and tell the old bishop to take a hike...

[Dathon]

You may need to enlist the support of your local stake president in dealing with the mission president. Some mission presidents tend to be letter of the law, follow the rule book bureaucrats, others may be more liberal.

[Mariposa]

o.k. The conversation goes like this. " Why do you want to change wards?" Well, this reason and that reason. And then the The SP says." Why don't you just work it out with the Bishop. He's been called by God and it says in the scriptures our leaders will never lead us astray. You shouldn't leave because you are offended..." I know this because I had that very conversation concerning a RSP. with my Bishop. I hope for you the SP is different but I doubt it. Anyway, let us know how it goes. I'll be thinking of you.
_________________
we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, We prophecy of Christ, That our people may know whom to look to for redemption of their sins.