New Order Mormon

[Archimedes]

For those of you still interested, it appears the Anointed One has been accorded Celebrity status by RfM. The original thread has been archived here:

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon508.htm

Also, AO has been addressed directly by King Benson himself. A sure sign that his calling and election has been made sure among the ex-mormon elite.

It is interesting to note, however, that there are still several posters who continue to ask AO for more details, and he continues to put them off.

Jury is still out in this skeptic's mind.
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[Garden Lilith]

[belaja]

Interesting stuff. I didn't go to RfM to read this, but read the cross-posting on FLAK. It rings very true to me, but I agree that it's possible that the poster used publicly available details to put together the story.

It did bring up a few random thoughts/memories for me though, as I read the discussion here.

First thing, was that my great-great grandparents, who were just poor Arizona peasants (though he was the first Thatcher stake patriarch) recorded (in his journal) that they got their second anointings in Salt Lake when they went up from Arizona at the time of the temple dedication. One of his daughters from his first wife was married to a grandson of Brigham Young, but it was not necessarily a close connection and they weren't rich elites in proximity to the "royal" families. So as late as 1893, regular folk were apparently getting their anointings and my impression is that it was not a big secret.

Second thing, regarding the "get out of sin free card." I've read (I think it was in Bagley, but I don't remember) that one of the ways the participants at Mountain Meadows were able to countenance the horror of their own actions was that they had had the second anointing and felt that they could sin without losing their exaltation. John D. Lee maintained to the end of his life that he would not ultimately lose his exaltation because he had not "shed innocent blood." (Which was considered to be children under eight--it's why they were scrupulous about a sparing some children and not others). He also talks in his journals about being delivered to buffeting in the flesh, after his excommunication. The wording jumped out at me--perhaps he was going by the idea that he was paying in this life for his sins at mountain meadows. In any case, this was clearly an important point to him--that he had not committed the "unforgiveable" sin of shedding innocent blood.

Third thing--when I worked at BYU archives (as I'm sure I've mentioned ad nauseum ) as a collections processor, we received the papers of a man who had been one of the original Regional Representatives. If I recall correctly, this was in the 60s--possibly very early 70s. Concurrent with his call, he received a letter from one of the twelve (I don't recall which one) which invited him to come to the temple with his wife on such and such a date and receive his second endowment wherein his calling and election would be made sure. It was very similar to what this guy described and they very specifically told him to tell no one in his family what they would be doing, and suggested that they just tell their family that they would be going to a "meeting at the temple." I saw the original letter, with the GA signature. It was the first time I'd ever heard of the second anointings. If I have the dates right, it puts the date back earlier than the Harold B. Lee years--and at a lower level than apostle.

Finally, when my dad was in the high council about 10 years ago, they had a fireside for just the stake presidency, the high councillors and their wives, where the SP fielded questions on any topic they wanted to know about. Some of those high councillors were really anxious to know about "having their calling and election made sure." One of the high council members was the head of security at the temple (a temple well outside the corridor). The stake president said, Brother Security Guy, maybe you could field that one. He told them that occasionally on Sundays he would go to the temple to open it up to small groups of couples and the temple presidency (he didn't mention the presence of apostles, IIRC) who were going to get their second anointings. He would be the only one there in the temple besides whoever was going into these "meetings"--I assume to have someone "on guard." It happened a few times a year, he said. The SP then told the group that people were quietly getting this done on an ongoing basis and that several people in our stake had done so. (My guess is that it was probably Security Guy and the SP, at least.) It's all third hand, coming from me, of course (though I have to say, my momma doesn't lie to me!) and this was all supposed to be a private meeting of the "elite" leadership of the stake and not meant to be shared with the plebes. So I don't think it's just happening at those very high levels, or just in the corridor. But it definitely has the effect of creating a sort of secret elite--according to my mom some of those guys were all but drooling over the chance to get their second anointings. I'd say, whatever purpose it was originally intended for, it certainly has the distinct effect of creating an inner-inner circle for people to aspire to, thereby keeping them jumping through the hoops and trying to prove their loyalty.

[ChristFollower]

I'm still at work at nearly 2am working on a project, so the tact lamp is definitely not lit at the moment. The only reaction I can really muster to this entire subject is just disbelief. Regardless of whether the specific incident happened, it's obvious that there are enough references to the 2d anointing to understand its general use. I just keep saying to myself, over and over, "what a bunch of bullsh*t". I think about the brave young family I home teach with the autistic child and the underemployed father, trying to go forward with faith to be obedient to what they have been asked to do. They're only here because they are trying to follow the spirit and "gather" in our ward with other family members. The husband left a decent-paying job behind, and they are trying so hard to do everything that they almost just vibrate with tension. They are so positive in the face of adversity, having four more children after the autistic one. The mother answers infomercials at 2am to make ends meet and then gets the kids off to school. When she sleeps I have no idea.

Has anyone offered them a second anointing, the chance to have their calling and election made sure, to be gods, kings and queens, priests and priestesses after the most high god? No, because they haven't sucked up to the right general authorities and been in the right leadership callings.

So, after all we can do, the most important thing is still who you know.

What a bunch of bullsh*t.

[GypsyD]

I totally agree CF.
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"...gonna put my tender heart in a blender..."

[SillyNut]

[SillyNut]

Betcha money my dad has had his then.

Though if he has, it would have come in the last 2 years. And that means that it's his current wifey.

I so hope not. How nauseating.
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Fig and Silly's Blog

[Dathon]

[Mike Michaels]

[Mike Michaels]

[korihor]

[Jacob Marley]

Two thoughts:

1. Weren't we taught that if we were true and faithful to our covenants, the day would come when we would be chosen, called up and anointed kings and queens, priests and priestesses?

2. This phrase stands out for me for some reason. "As I considered God would not prevent someone joining his one true church simply because they had a better scientific education and understanding" This is the kind of sincere thought that leads a real true believing member to entertain broader possibilities. The Golden Rule working in a heart.
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JM (Justin Martyr aka Justin Morning aka Jacob Marley) aka Tom Haws

[Melodica]

[alas]

If they were taking referrals they should ask bishops if there is anyone in their ward who has overcome tremendous difficulties, continued to love a wayward child, given up luxuries to keep a handicapped child at home, taken care of their aging parents, spends every Sunday at the soup kitchen instead of in church, tended their exhusband as he is dying of AIDS after he decided to live a gay lifestyle. You know, real loving and Christlike behavior. They don't need to tell the bishop what it is for, just ask if there are that kind of outstanding examples of righteousness, kindness, charity. Forget the leaders who get lots of praise of man, they have their reward.

I think I will take this whole thread and put it on my refridgerator for next time I get feeling like I want to go back to being a full participant in the church. Proof of why I don't like Mormonism. Lack of truth doesn't bother me near as much as lack of Christianity.

The absolute arrogance of thinking they have any right to decide who has reached "perfection" and can't possibly lose the CK. And they think 'Born again" Christians, who think that accepting Christ is all they have to do and then they are saved no matter what they do after that, are on the wrong track.

I thought the church was arrogant in declaring my father "forgiven" when he hadn't done any of the things they told him he had to do before being rebaptized. But this is kind of the same thing isn't it. They speak for God and know every little thing they do comes directly from God and they are beyond making any kind of mistake.

The most sickening thing, is that the reason this story sounds true, is because I see it as exactly what the church would do.
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[Figaro]