New Order Mormon

(A New Hope)
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 2:22 pm 
<p> <aimoo wysiwyg="WYSIWYG"><p>How is it that the leaders of the mormon church support the interference of the US government in the country of Iraq?  </p> <p>Why do they assume that the people in that country want democracy?  </p> <p>The mormon church isn't a democracy.  It believes in letting others worship how, when, or what they may.  </p> <p>If the US government came to the mormon church and said, "We want your church to adopt democratic principles," the church would fight it tooth and nail.  That would mean that members would elect their leaders.  It would mean that women would have an equal say in the decision making.  It would mean that there would be no more closed door sessions where people are tried and/or convicted without public knowledge.  Men and women in the church would be given the CHOICE of wearing the undergarment burka, and their choice wouldn't affect their standing in the community.  </p> <p>Can someone explain this to me? </p> <br><br> </font>


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 3:21 pm 
<p> <aimoo wysiwyg="WYSIWYG">Reply to : dimmesdale <blockquote> <hr noshade="noShade" width="100%" size="1">How is it that the leaders of the mormon church support the interference of the US government in the country of Iraq?Why do they assume that the people in that country want democracy?The mormon church isn't a democracy. It believes in letting others worship how, when, or what they may.If the US government came to the mormon church and said, "We want your church to adopt democratic principles," the church would fight it tooth and nail. That would mean thatmembers would elect their leaders. It would mean that women would have an equal say in the decision making. It would mean that there would be no more closed door sessions where people are tried and/or convicted without public knowledge. Men and women in the church would be given the CHOICE of wearing the undergarment burka, and their choi <hr noshade="noShade" width="100%" size="1"> </blockquote>It's all very simple.  When the answer to any possible question is resolved in a closed thought system by appeal to authority, there is no question outside the scope of that authority.  In a previous post, philo liked the concept that authoritarian systems using coercive means tend to totalitarian systems where there are no moral limits on what the in-group can do to the out-group.  How far down that road do you think the LDS church has gone?    <b><br><br>------------------------- <br></b>"The high places are within." <br><br> </font>


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 12:15 am 
<p> <aimoo wysiwyg="WYSIWYG">Reply to : dimmesdale <blockquote> <hr noshade="noShade" width="100%" size="1">How is it that the leaders of the mormon church support the interference of the US government in the country of Iraq?Why do they assume that the people in that country want democracy?The mormon church isn't a democracy. It believes in letting others worship how, when, or what they may.If the US government came to the mormon church and said, "We want your church to adopt democratic principles," the church would fight it tooth and nail. That would mean thatmembers would elect their leaders. It would mean that women would have an equal say in the decision making. <hr noshade="noShade" width="100%" size="1"> </blockquote> <p>I don't think anybody particularly thinks the Iraqi people have been yearning for democracy, but it's pretty clear they've been yearning for the ouster of Saddam and his sadistic henchmen.  Once having accomplished the urgently necessary ouster, what are we supposed to do -- appoint a king?  The trouble with just departing and leaving the newly Saddamless Iraqis to their own devices to set up a government, is that there are religious extremist elements who have a lot of support from outside the country, who will start a new cycle of horrible abuses in order to get and keep control.  It's a pretty safe bet the Iraqi people don't want that either, but until they've got some sort of functioning government, they're ill-equipped to fend it off.  Democracy is just a palatable default setting; if a significant majority really wants some other form of government (meaning ONE other form of government, not fighting over twenty other forms of government), once they've got democracy, they can vote to switch to the other form. </p> <p>As for the governance of the LDS Church, I don't think it's a reasonable comparison with Iraq.  1) The LDS Church is a voluntary membership organization, and 2) it HAS a functioning government.  Some form of democracy is ethically necessary for a nation, as most citizens have no choice as to whether or not to be subject to the government.  However, in a voluntary membership organization, such as a church  or political party or football team, hierarchical government's power is severely limited by the freedom of dissenting members to simply walk away, and thus doesn't pose anywhere near the dangers that such a form of government poses  in a nation. </p> <p>Fly </p> <br><br>  <font face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" color="000000" style="font-size:12px;"><b>Message edited by: flyonthewall on 07/01/2003 21:16:23[Server Time/GMT -8 Pacific Time] </b></font> <br><br> </font>


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 12:50 pm 
<p> <aimoo wysiwyg="WYSIWYG">Reply to : flyonthewall <blockquote> <hr noshade="noShade" width="100%" size="1">However, in a voluntary membership organization, such as a church  or political party or football team, hierarchical government's power is severely limited by the freedom of dissenting members to simply walk away, and thus doesn't pose anywhere near the dangers that such a form of government poses  in a nation. <hr noshade="noShade" width="100%" size="1"> </blockquote> <p>Unless you lived in the isolated Utah territory during BY's reign.  <img src="http://www.aimoo.com/forum/images/inserticon/fear.gif"></p> <p>Gidd. </p> <b><br><br>------------------------- <br></b>"Understanding is a three edged sword." <br><br> </font>


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:22 pm 
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<p> <aimoo wysiwyg="WYSIWYG">Reply to : dimmesdale <blockquote> <hr noshade="noShade" width="100%" size="1">How is it that the leaders of the mormon church support the interference of the US government in the country of Iraq? <hr noshade="noShade" width="100%" size="1"> </blockquote>Has the church done so? Not being in zion, I perhaps do not get the news (whether from the media or the pulpit) of the church's opinions, official or not. <br><br> </font>


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