New Order Mormon

(A New Hope)
It is currently Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:12 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:50 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Utah
Does anyone know the story behind Lorenzo Snow marrying a sweet 16 year old girl from Mantua?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 2209
Location: Where The Sand Meets The Sea
henryjacobs wrote:
Does anyone know the story behind Lorenzo Snow marrying a sweet 16 year old girl from Mantua?

I don't know which of his wives was from Mantua, but here is some info on his wives:
Quote:
"Before leaving Nauvoo, Snow accepted the principle of plural marriage and took four wives: Charlotte Squires (age 20), Mary Adaline Goddard (age 32), Sarah Ann Prichard (age 18 ), and Harriet Amelia Squires (age 26). Snow would later take several more wives: Eleanor Houtz (age 14), Mary Elizabeth Houtz (younger sister of Eleanor), Caroline Horton (age 29), Sarah Minnie Ephamina (age 16). Snow also wed the 17-year-old Pheobe Woodruff, the daughter of Wilford Woodruff. Snow fathered the child Rhea Lucile Snow at the age of 83 while serving as president of the LDS Church."

You could probably find information on where each of these women / girls were from on FamilySearch.org or ancestry.com. I'll also see what I can find.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:35 pm
Posts: 1117
Location: Utah
Another 14 year old? That is so sad! Not that the 16 and 17 year olds don't break my heart, but I have a daughter that is nearly 11. Her getting married in 3 years is frankly sickening.

_________________
Isn't this enough? Just this beautiful, complex, wonderfully unfathomable, natural world? [Why] do we have to diminish it with the invention of cheap, man-made myths and monsters? - Tim Minchin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:12 pm
Posts: 3668
Location: Northern Utah
The first four you see were all the SAME DAY. Snow had just been appointed as an apostle. But you can't really accept that calling unless you're married - and not just married, but you have to have multiple wives (back then anyway). So yes, that would be quite the interesting honeymoon.

_________________
"The most pernicious lies are the ones we tell ourselves" - unknown , "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime

"Bugoy" means naughty or mischievous in Cebuano


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 2209
Location: Where The Sand Meets The Sea
bugoy1 wrote:
The first four you see were all the SAME DAY. Snow had just been appointed as an apostle. But you can't really accept that calling unless you're married - and not just married, but you have to have multiple wives (back then anyway). So yes, that would be quite the interesting honeymoon.


Yeah, GREAT honeymoon....especially since two of them were sisters (the Squires sister). He also married a second set of sisters later.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:59 pm
Posts: 7534
Location: Mission Field
No wonder I side with what the Book of Mormon says in regard to polygamy! :twisted:

_________________
And maybe love is letting people be just what they want to be
The door must always be left unlocked
To love when circumstance may lead someone away from you
And not to spend the time just doubting

Howard Jones


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:35 pm
Posts: 3441
Start here: http://www.lds.org/churchhistory/presidents/leaders.jsp, select Snow. Press "Significant Events" on the left. Notice no mention of wives or marriage.

Now reference the Gospel Principles manual, page 181. "We can also intentionally deceive others ... by telling only part of the truth".

Proof positive, by their own definition, that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints actively and with fore-thought participates in "bearing false witness".

_________________
”Most of the harm in the world is done by good people, and not by accident, lapse, or omission. It is the result of their deliberate actions, long persevered in, which they hold to be motivated by high ideals toward virtuous ends.” - Isabel Paterson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:50 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Utah
I'm sorry. I was too vague in my first post. I was really looking for information on the 16 year old Sarah Minnie Ephamina. Does anyone have any details like courtship, proposal, and father's consent?

I must have missed the 14 year old during the research. That one would be interesting too.

Wow...I just went over to FLAK and ranted about mormon polygamy and prophets/GA's marrying young girls for over an hour and lost it when I hit submit. I thought it was too angry to post here. Well, it will have rewrite it another night.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:25 pm
Posts: 7
ff42 wrote:
Now reference the Gospel Principles manual, page 181. "We can also intentionally deceive others ... by telling only part of the truth".



Reminds me of the major history and doctrine left out of the lessons while I was being taught by missionaries. I was taught lots of *pretty* things. Sigh.

_________________
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. --Friedrich Nietzsche


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 2209
Location: Where The Sand Meets The Sea
henryjacobs wrote:
I'm sorry. I was too vague in my first post. I was really looking for information on the 16 year old Sarah Minnie Ephamina.

I looked over on ancestry.com and her name is actually:
"Sarah Minnie Ephramina Jensen"
She was born in Brigham City in 1854 (Oct.10).
Her parents are: "Hans Peter Jensen" and "Sarah Josephine Dinah Clawson".
She married Lorenzo Snow on June 12, 1871 (SLC).
She died on Jan. 2, 1908 (SLC).

There are a lot more wives listed for Lorenzo Snow (actually too many to list here) over on ancestry.com (that weren't included in the quote above in my other post).

Snow also married Sarah Minnie Jensen's sister, "Huldah Amelia Jensen".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:34 pm
Posts: 253
Apparently, Sarah Jensen married Lorenzo Snow when she was still 15 (according to familysearch.org she was born in 1855, not 1854 -- not sure which is correct). He was 41 years older than she was. She had her first child when she was almost 21 (he was 62). She had her last child when she was 41 (he was 82).

The average age difference between Lorenzo and his wives was 17.3 years. Average age of his wives at their wedding was 20.7 years old. He had a total of 42 children (13 in his 30s, 16 in his 40s, 8 in his 50s, 3 in his 60s, 1 in his 70s, and 1 in his 80s).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:16 am
Posts: 761
Location: Corridor West
ff42 wrote:
Start here: http://www.lds.org/churchhistory/presidents/leaders.jsp, select Snow. Press "Significant Events" on the left. Notice no mention of wives or marriage.


Holy crap, NONE of the polygamist presidents except for JS have marriage dates listed - BY through Heber J Grant, it's like they weren't married at all. Then you get to George Albert Smith and suddenly they all have marriage dates. I don't know why, but stuff like this still surprises me.

_________________
"It is an affront to treat falsehood with complacence"
-- Thomas Paine


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:41 am
Posts: 6517
Location: Middangeard
Wow. Didn't know that about Lorenzo Snow. I know a couple of 14-year-olds. They're great kids, and you can call me crazy if you want, but they don't seem old enough to get married... (shrugging ;))

L

_________________
“Drab Habitation of Whom? Tabernacle or Tomb - or Dome of Worm - or Porch of Gnome - or some Elf's Catacomb?”
-- Emily Dickinson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 2209
Location: Where The Sand Meets The Sea
This whole thread reminded me of my great-great-grandfather who married a 15 year old on "orders" from BY. When he was called by BY to be the mission president in Denmark, he was told to find himself "a new wife or two" while he was over there (so much for getting approval from all the poor, old wives left home in Utah to survive for 8 years on their own....they had no idea he was bringing home a new, fresh, young wife....Surprise!).

Anyway....in everything I've read (his journals, life story, etc.), it always states that this new wife was in her "16th year".....which of course gives the impression that she was 16 instead of 15 years old (not that this is much better).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:50 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Utah
Leukarktos wrote:
Wow. Didn't know that about Lorenzo Snow. I know a couple of 14-year-olds. They're great kids, and you can call me crazy if you want, but they don't seem old enough to get married... (shrugging ;))

L
I'm surprised you didn't know. I thought everybody knew. Our bishop talked about it just last week at church when he was telling the young women in our ward that they don't know the meaning of true love and dedication (sorry, just kidding)

Actually, I've known 15 years olds that have gotten pregnant with their boyfriends, so it's not that impossible to think that they really like boys. But to marry a 57 year old man???? What were they thinking? I'm 50 and it makes me want to vomit to think of a 15 year old with a wrinkled old fart like me. It makes me think that these men were so full of themselves that they acutally thought they deserved these young wives.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:50 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Utah
zytines wrote:
Apparently, Sarah Jensen married Lorenzo Snow when she was still 15 (according to familysearch.org she was born in 1855, not 1854 -- not sure which is correct). He was 41 years older than she was. She had her first child when she was almost 21 (he was 62). She had her last child when she was 41 (he was 82).

The average age difference between Lorenzo and his wives was 17.3 years. Average age of his wives at their wedding was 20.7 years old. He had a total of 42 children (13 in his 30s, 16 in his 40s, 8 in his 50s, 3 in his 60s, 1 in his 70s, and 1 in his 80s).


Zytines....wow, what a post. That would make a great billboard, one at the point of the mountain and one up around Bountiful. Ouch!!

If you have a spread excel spread sheet, I'd love a copy. I started one a few years ago but it was upsetting me ,so I stopped. PM me if you are willing to share.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:50 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Utah
AllieOop wrote:
This whole thread reminded me of my great-great-grandfather who married a 15 year old on "orders" from BY. When he was called by BY to be the mission president in Denmark, he was told to find himself "a new wife or two" while he was over there (so much for getting approval from all the poor, old wives left home in Utah to survive for 8 years on their own....they had no idea he was bringing home a new, fresh, young wife....Surprise!).

Anyway....in everything I've read (his journals, life story, etc.), it always states that this new wife was in her "16th year".....which of course gives the impression that she was 16 instead of 15 years old (not that this is much better).


Do you have any information about how she felt about it?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 11:14 am
Posts: 382
This doesn't have anything to do with the age of his wives, but you'd think that they would have at least read the scriptures.

http://bible.cc/leviticus/18-18.htm (Basically, do not marry your wife's sister while your wife is alive)

_________________
Uncle Iroh (Avatar) - "It's time for you to look inward and start asking yourself the big question: who are you and what do YOU want?"


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], BringEmYoung, ChessPieceFace, morganlf21, Reflexzero, Released, Yahoo [Bot], Zadok and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group Color scheme by ColorizeIt!