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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:19 am 
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In the January Ensign, there's an article about "Widows and Widowers: Moving Forward with Faith," by Kersten Campbell. It's a pretty decent article, for the most part, though I was thrown for a loop by her solution to widows' financial difficulties: "One of the greatest blessings came from paying tithing. 'I've always paid my tithing,' she says, 'I felt I couldn't afford not to.'" Blah, blah, blah. I mean, WTF?!? Here a person's lost their spouse, and they're talking about paying tithing? Argh! :x If you ask me, purchasing life insurance is a far more effective way of gaining financial security in case of widowhood.

They did talk about two widowers, but only two (that I could tell), while they talked about scads of widows. I suppose it's easier to feel sympathy for widowed women than men, eh? Obviously, we men either don't love our wives as much, or are better able to deal with grief... (Sorry, no offense meant to women! Just sayin' loss is equally hard for everybody, but Church folk don't always seem to get that.)

The best part was quotes from the widow/ers themselves. Like this one:
"The ride to the hospital... seemed to take forever. As I walked in the doors, one of the emergency room attendants came to meet me, to tell me what I already knew: my husband was dead. A part of me died too, that misty November morning." I can totally relate to that, as part of me died when my wife did.

All in all, a good article, despite a couple of irritants.

L


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:29 am 
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The bias towards widows is easily explained by the prevailing cultural attitude that men are to be self reliant and women are to be dependent on their man, with no skills or experience outside the home.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:24 am 
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I'd tend to believe that they have more examples of widows to widowers because I've always been led to believe that statistically women outlive men.
That's all I would read into that.

(((hugs))) Losing a spouse is hard no matter your sex.

The tithing thing is a bit odd, but there were a couple articles about always paying tithing in this issue (February). I'd chalk that up to an obvious focus the brethren have chosen.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:38 pm 
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Mr_Bean wrote:
The bias towards widows is easily explained by the prevailing cultural attitude that men are to be self reliant and women are to be dependent on their man, with no skills or experience outside the home.


^^ This. Especially within the church culture, where the men are supposed to bring home the bacon so it isn't un-common for a woman to sacrifice her education for his (like I did). My husband finally did get life insurance. Before that, I was one husband away from being poor.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:08 pm 
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The problem with magical thinking is that the proposed solutions don't actually do anything useful except maybe help you feel better.

I don't know why God would require 10 percent from someone who is already suffering enough before he/she would offer comfort and assistance. But then I guess I don't really believe in God so problem solved.

Honestly the thing that perplexes me most is that people continue to read this stuff! :shock: :wink: :lol:

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Agitatrs r a set o intefering, medling people, who come down t som perfctly contnted clas o the comunty n sow th seeds o discntent amngst them. Tht is th reason y agitators r so abslutly necsry. Witout thm thre wud b no advnce toward civlisation O. Wilde


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:27 pm 
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Mr_Bean wrote:
The bias towards widows is easily explained by the prevailing cultural attitude that men are to be self reliant and women are to be dependent on their man, with no skills or experience outside the home.

Yes, but I'm talking emotions here, not money. Or do people assume that because a man is self-reliant financially, he will also be emotionally? I can see where they're coming from, but am not sure it necessarily follows.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:29 pm 
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d0nquix0te wrote:
Honestly the thing that perplexes me most is that people continue to read this stuff! :shock: :wink: :lol:

*snort* Yeah, like why DO I read this stuff! :lol: Usually I don't, but every once in a while I get curious, and it reminds me just why I normally don't read it!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:32 pm 
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just me wrote:
I'd tend to believe that they have more examples of widows to widowers because I've always been led to believe that statistically women outlive men.

Maybe I'm not thinking clearly, but even though women tend to outlive men, aren't approximately equal numbers of each sex dying (if at different ages)?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:03 pm 
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Leukarktos wrote:
just me wrote:
I'd tend to believe that they have more examples of widows to widowers because I've always been led to believe that statistically women outlive men.

Maybe I'm not thinking clearly, but even though women tend to outlive men, aren't approximately equal numbers of each sex dying (if at different ages)?


Seems logical. It's just that more women live longer than their husbands, so more women die single/widowed. Statistically there are nearly 4x the number of widows to widowers.

I'm looking for stats and so far I'm just finding the comment "there are more widows than widowers" without actual stats to back it up.

Oh, found some sites that look knowlegable:
http://www.deathreference.com/Vi-Z/Widows.html
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=586349

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:57 pm 
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That's why there are only references to women. Besides - if you are a widowed man it is your duty to have already remarried so that you guarantee some sweet spirit an eternal - albeit polygamous - partner. Do I sound in the least bit ticked off? I wonder why! I am a young widow and between the idiots telling me I need to start attending adult singles functions and dances a month after my husband died, trying to shove me off on the adult singles group and not knowing what else to do with me so dropping me like a hot potato from everything else it is enough to make you never want to come back!

I grant you I am not the typical widow with kids who is easy to pity or help - we were converts who had no children (because of my husband's cancer) and I have never been a really good mingler when all the conversations are about whose children are doing what in RS or any social groups.

I have to admit I choked at the line about titheing - as my checking account is overdrawn, I lost over 60% of our family income at his death (as well as losing my job prior to it because I ran out of leave), lost the lump sum of insurance because I made the decision to take it before he died to pay for alternative treatments that bought him almost two more years and as a result haven't got money to pay the heat bill much less the titheing. Yeah, right - I will be titheing instantly - before I do anything else to receive God's gifts to me as a widow! (Maybe if I tithe I can get my husband back?)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:30 pm 
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I think there are two issues why the article would deal more with widows than widowers. 1. There are more widows. 2. a man is supposed to remarry and not be a widower and it is his own stupid fault if he stays a widower. (I am not stating how I feel, but the way I see the church pressures men, so Leuk, dear, don't think I am blaming you for not remarrying.)

The thing with there being a lot more widows mentioned is just that women marry men who tend on average to be older, and then they live longer. the two add together to make it more likely that women will be widowed. I think especially in the church your most common age of marriage for women was 19 just a few years back, although maybe it is older than that now, and your most common age of marriage for men was 23 or so. So, take a 19 year old wife married to a 23 year old man, and then the difference in age of death with that for women being about 7 years longer than men, and you have a 3-4 year age difference to start with, and then the men die 7 years younger, so your most common situation is that the women have about 10 years of widowhood.

The article just wasn't dealing with YOUNG widows or widowers who would be closer to even.

Even just look at the words we have for widow and widower. What other word in English has the femine as the norm and the thing is added on to make it masculine? Priest/priestess, God/goddess the word is changed to make it feminine from the masculine standard. But with this one, the feminine of the word is the "normal" and the male has the suffix to make it masculine. It is just "normal" for women to be left and men to do the leaving as far as death goes. And when you consider that these words came to be when women died in child birth, it makes this language bias even more interesting.

Another part of it is that men are expected to remarry and women are not quite so expected to remarry. The older the person is, the more women to men in our society, so it is harder for a widow to find a new mate and the man has LOTS to choose from.

So, Leuk, the church just wants you to quit feeling sorry for yourself and go marry yourself a new wife. After all, the church looks at women as sort of interchangable and it is the role you need to fill, not the person herself that you miss. I find this the most appaling implication of this article, that men can and should just go out and fall in love again in a month or so.

I had a close friend who died of cancer at 33 and left 5 kids, the youngest still a baby. Her husband was bishop when she died and he got a LOT pf pressure to marry again. He was told that if he didn't remarry SOON, that they would release him as bishop. It wasn't that they were worried about the children having a mother and him being gone so much. It was their rules that a bishop must be married. So, he married quickly and the new wife was not suited to him and she was not good about the 5 instant children and him being gone all the time as bishop, and the marriage lasted 6 months or so and then she divorced him and he was released becase a bishop CAN'T be divorced. If the church had just kept its big nose out of his business, things would have been better for everyone. The traumatized children lost a second mother figure.

So, that to me illistrates part of why widows are given more support, love and empathy. A good Mormon man will just remarry and then he won't be a widower. But the church is more accepting of women not marrying or not remarrying because after all, the men control dating and proposals and if a woman doesn't get a proposal of marriage it isn't her fault. But if a man doesn't issue one, then it is his fault.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:41 pm 
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Leukarktos wrote:
In the January Ensign, there's an article about "Widows and Widowers: Moving Forward with Faith," by Kersten Campbell. It's a pretty decent article, for the most part, though I was thrown for a loop by her solution to widows' financial difficulties: "One of the greatest blessings came from paying tithing. 'I've always paid my tithing,' she says, 'I felt I couldn't afford not to.'" Blah, blah, blah. I mean, WTF?!? Here a person's lost their spouse, and they're talking about paying tithing? Argh! :x If you ask me, purchasing life insurance is a far more effective way of gaining financial security in case of widowhood.

They did talk about two widowers, but only two (that I could tell), while they talked about scads of widows. I suppose it's easier to feel sympathy for widowed women than men, eh? Obviously, we men either don't love our wives as much, or are better able to deal with grief... (Sorry, no offense meant to women! Just sayin' loss is equally hard for everybody, but Church folk don't always seem to get that.)

The best part was quotes from the widow/ers themselves. Like this one:
"The ride to the hospital... seemed to take forever. As I walked in the doors, one of the emergency room attendants came to meet me, to tell me what I already knew: my husband was dead. A part of me died too, that misty November morning." I can totally relate to that, as part of me died when my wife did.

All in all, a good article, despite a couple of irritants.

L

The bias is cultural. Conditioning if you will. The tithing part is based on faith that if you pay, you will be blessed in many ways as per Amos. One famous guy said that he was broke, a drunk and hopeless. He joined the Church, paid tithing and ended up being blessed beyond measure and today he's a millionaire. I guess tithing is very subjective. I just started paying mine, mostly because I hope it helps people in need somewhere but I am not sitting here expecting to win the lottery as a result. I'd have no problem paying tithing even if I were a widower. It's a faith thing that involves money to help the poor and the Church's maintenance and growth.


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