 |
New Order Mormon
A forum for Mormons in all stages of faith
Please read our Posting Guidelines.
Believing spouse? Need to vent? Want additional perspectives? Click here.
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Mike Michaels
Mini-Renaissance Man
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 1874
Location: Living on a dead end street in Lake Wobegon
|
 Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: The Second Annointing |
 |
|
A poster on RfM created a thread about his Second Annointing experience. Although I have heard of it previously I was never privy to the details nor had I done any internet research on the content. I thought the poster related the experience in a respectful manner so I'll post it here. Moderators may remove it if they feel it crosses the bounds of propriety for this site. I think it raises some interesting questions that could be discussed in a respectful tone.
-DIRECT QUOTES DETAILING RITUALS REMOVED UPON REQUEST TO RESPECT THAT SOME FAMILY MEMBERS MAY FIND THE POST DISRESPECTFUL OF SACRED BELIEFS-
_________________
"I left the woods for as good a reason as I went there. Perhaps it seemed to me that I had several more lives to live and could not spare any more time for that one."
Thoreau |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Lincoln
Rock On
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 1497
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: The Second Annointing |
|
|
| Mike Michaels wrote: | A poster on RfM created a thread about his Second Annointing experience. Although I have heard of it previously I was never privy to the details nor had I done any internet research on the content. I thought the poster related the experience in a respectful manner so I'll post it here. Moderators may remove it if they feel it crosses the bounds of propriety for this site. I think it raises some interesting questions that could be discussed in a respectful tone.
| RfM - Anointed One wrote: |
My Second Anointing Experience
-SNIP- by Melodica. See above post for the full quote. |
|
Link? Since Mel snipped Annointed One's full post, here is where you can read Annointed One's full account of his secret Second Annointing that he received in the London Temple
Last edited by Lincoln on Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Michaels
Mini-Renaissance Man
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 1874
Location: Living on a dead end street in Lake Wobegon
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lincoln
Rock On
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 1497
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Link to Second Anointing |
|
|
Wow. That post is like an atomic bomb going off, if what 'anointed one' claims happened is true. I remember a couple years ago Elrond started a thread about the Second Annointing, and the consensus then was that it was one of those ordinances that had gone the way of the Dodo.
How do you even begin to prove such a contention? I don't know how I would begin to prove that I had witnessed the penalties in the temple, but I did. I don't know how I would prove it though. This is fascinating. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Michaels
Mini-Renaissance Man
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 1874
Location: Living on a dead end street in Lake Wobegon
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Link to Second Anointing |
|
|
| Mike Michaels wrote: | | The wife blessing the husband is the most mind-blowing tidbit to me... and we know enough about early Mormon history to know this was common so it's not unlikely that it survived into the Second Annointing. It would make the secrecy justified too. In the post-ERA era if all LDS women knew that they could give their husband a blessing in the temple then the logical question would be "why don't women have the priesthood?". |
Is nobody really intrigued by this facet of the account (which is supported by the outline of the ordinance provided in the other link)?
The sinning for free card I can understand. You wouldn't want that interpretation of the ordinance to get out or else EVERYONE would want one just like LatterDaySkeptic.
But institutionalized participation of women in an ordinance! That's phenomenal even if it is only "giving a blessing". I would have thought that would have generated more commentary.
FWIW I agree with Dathon that if you're trying to maintain the middle way this account is of no practical use... but by the same measure so would reading Brody, Compton, Arbanes, Bagely, Brooks, and every other respected author. I think it pays to be skeptical but one can also too skeptical. This account walks that fine balance in a manner which I think contributes to our understanding of Mormonism in the same way as any of those respected books. Granted, it's not a ton of information, but it's all we've got to go on with precious few other sources.
_________________
"I left the woods for as good a reason as I went there. Perhaps it seemed to me that I had several more lives to live and could not spare any more time for that one."
Thoreau
Last edited by Mike Michaels on Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:51 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Michaels
Mini-Renaissance Man
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 1874
Location: Living on a dead end street in Lake Wobegon
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Link to Second Anointing |
|
|
| Lincoln wrote: |
Wow. That post is like an atomic bomb going off, if what 'anointed one' claims happened is true. I remember a couple years ago Elrond started a thread about the Second Annointing, and the consensus then was that it was one of those ordinances that had gone the way of the Dodo.
How do you even begin to prove such a contention? I don't know how I would begin to prove that I had witnessed the penalties in the temple, but I did. I don't know how I would prove it though. This is fascinating. |
By the power of Google...
http://www.lds-mormon.com/veilworker/2dAnointing.shtml
_________________
"I left the woods for as good a reason as I went there. Perhaps it seemed to me that I had several more lives to live and could not spare any more time for that one."
Thoreau |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steve-M
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 551
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I always assumed that the Second Anointing was only given to general authorities, perhaps only apostles. If this account is legitimate, then wow. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ungewiss
amicably agnostic
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 584
Location: On a NOM vacation
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This is blowing my mind. I've never even heard of this second anointing. It sounds absolutely contrary to fundamental gospel principles.
Some days I just want to walk away.
I should play some happy music instead.
Maybe then I'll feel like dancing away. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LostinDreams
One wing
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 472
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steve-M wrote: | | I always assumed that the Second Anointing was only given to general authorities, perhaps only apostles. If this account is legitimate, then wow. |
This was my impression as well. I have heard it before, but I can't remember who was telling me and why. Must be an old memory.
_________________
He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it ~ Douglas Adams |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Figaro
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 254
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Fascinating stuff. Thanks for sharing.
_________________
Fig and Silly's Blog |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SillyNut
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 413
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Once again, it's all about who you know.
I figured it was ongoing, I knew that the higher ups probably had it done, and that there were people who weren't higher ups but I figured they were all related or really close friends or something.
Wow. To be given a blessing that I could live til I wanted to die.
Just.... wow.
But since it's all a bunch of hokey anyway....
_________________
Fig and Silly's Blog |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Latterday Skeptic
Dogma scares me
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 1441
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| SillyNut wrote: | Once again, it's all about who you know.
Wow. To be given a blessing that I could live til I wanted to die |
That stood out to me as well. I guess President Benson didn't get his 2nd anointing as he seemed to continue well past the age of senility as prophet of the church. Remember how Hinckley and Monson were running the church for so long. Guess you can stay alive for as long as you want, but who'd want to if your body becomes a mess anyway?
This whole article sounds very much LDS-ish, and I wouldn't put it past the Q15 to do these things in this manner. I think it's hard to prove, and the end sounded a bit contrived as to what cast out a 2nd anointed member. The idea here is that you're so steeped in Mormon doctrine and following your leaders that even if information was presented to you that was false, you'd still likely stay.
I'd love to get that free sin card, though. 
Latterday Skeptic
_________________
“I fear one day I'll meet God, he'll sneeze and I won't know what to say.” -- Ronnie Shakes |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Latterday Skeptic
Dogma scares me
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 1441
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
Of course this all sidesteps the issue that a person would know he could +/- sin and "make it". True or not, I think this could be a very dangerous position for anyone to sincerely believe in, human nature being what it is.
I've seen and known about people who have weathered more storms in this life than ever was "fair". Yet, because someone is a SP, MP or other high up performing relatively innocuous "church duties" such as keeping people in or out of temples, hearing confessions of wrong doing and prescribing penance, and deciding when the sinner has repented "enough", holding endless meetings on behalf of "the work" and keeping men and women away from their families, setting themselves up as a light upon a hill to draw all men unto them, and spreading the Mormon message to all who will be convinced by the whitewashed gospel/church presentation...they get the gold card entrance. This while a friend of mine lays dying, having overcome "all" in her life. This while a BP's child contracts luekemia, and he perseveres in his calling anyway, despite the desire to stay home and use all his time with his child who's in danger of passing away.......
Frankly, this story, if it's true, spits in the face of everyone who has truly gone through trials in this life. (I don't know what trials this GA had, but this "ordinance's" exclusivity towards "leadership" is the thing I'm upset about.) I'm sore amazed at the faith people will put into hollow ritual and ceremony. This reeks of much of what is wrong with the Mormon church today.
Latterday Skeptic
_________________
“I fear one day I'll meet God, he'll sneeze and I won't know what to say.” -- Ronnie Shakes |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Questions...
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 123
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
The main issue here is whether or not this is a true, factual account. Maintaining the same skeptical approach that I do with other stories I hear, there isn't enough here for me to accept it at face value. I read through the various comments on the original RfM board, and there was nothing there to provide additional verification.
It certainly could be true, but until additional evidence comes forward, I am not willing to give the poster the benefit of the doubt. If anyone has additional information on this account, I would definitely be interested.
_________________
"Q"
Question Everything!
http://tel-theexaminedlife.blogspot.com/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steve-M
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 551
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
In Buerger's 1983 Dialogue article, "'The Fulness of the Priesthood': The Second Anointing in Latter-day Saint Theology and Practice," he indicates that twentieth-century rhetoric about the second anointing increasingly made its blessings conditional upon faithfulness and obedience. He also mentions multiple conversations he had with temple presidents, who tended to indicate that it was not substantially different from the first anointing and that it was more of a "special blessing" than anything else. I wonder if that is how it is currently understood by those in the upper echelons of the hierarchy. If so, then it may no longer be the "license to sin" described in D&C 132:26.
Of course, if the blessings associated with the second anointing are conditioned on obedience, then it seems like an unnecessary ordinance, because those same blessings are already promised upon conditions of faithfulness in the first anointing. But then, the account at RFM deemphasizes the conditional nature of the blessing. If that account is legitimate, then the modern significance of the second anointing may be closer to what Joseph Smith had in mind than Buerger believed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
View new posts
Chat
Register
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
