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Jacob's Favorite
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 724
Location: Utah
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 Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:43 pm Post subject: Mormon Doctrine |
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Last night I was wondering if I'd qualify for the title "apostate" (a dangerous place to be, I'm sure) and decided to consult the formerly much-revered work of Bruce R. McConkie (sadly, not the original version, which I've heard is a gem). I was comically relieved from the offset.
Under "Apostasy", you first encounter nearly a full column of "see..." with other relevant suggestions. They include the following:
"See abominations, agnosticism, atheism,...broad-mindedness, card playing, celibacy, Christendom...Christianity, Christmas, Church of the Devil...euchrist, evolution...extreme unction...gambling, gnosticism...ignorance...inquisitions...mythology...profanity...telestial law," etc.
Anyway, my DH and I laughed our heads off for probably half an hour reading this. It was much needed loud laughter for me after a stressful Sabbath!
And, by the way, Brother Bruce would definitely call me apostate.
_________________
"Our whole strength rests on the validity of that vision. It either occurred or it did not occur. If it did not, then this work is a fraud." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"We are collateral damage." - henryjacobs |
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d0nquix0te
Every plumber's worst nightmare!
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 5063
Location: Salt Lake, UT
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Lol  . Mckonkie is a silly, silly man. Card playing and celibacy? Christmas?!
Not sure what he's getting at with those cross references, but I'm sure it made sense to him, may he rest in peace. 
_________________
"If you could only sense how important you are to the lives of those you meet; how important you can be to the people you may never even dream of. There is something of yourself that you leave at every meeting with another person."
— Fred Rogers |
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Second Gospel
Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 564
Location: Zion
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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The best was when we looked up card playing and were told that it inevitably leads to the pool hall.
"Oh yes, we've got trouble my friends. Right here in River City. With a capital T and that rhymes with P and that stands for Pool."
_________________
"Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain." |
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Nom de Cypher
Hello darling
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 2350
Location: 3 temples within eyesight
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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I would have to grudgingly accept the label of heretic, but I refuse to let Teh Church steal the definition of apostate so that it applies to anyone who has the temerity to admit to any sin. Bah. Read a book, Brethren.
_________________
"What if Spartacus had had an airplane?"
-- Dathon
http://famousdeadmormons.com |
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Dathon
%$#* waterspout!
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 12810
Location: Here
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Apostasy (pronounced /əˈpɒstəsi/) is the formal religious disaffiliation or abandonment or renunciation of one's religion, especially if the motive is deemed unworthy. In a technical sense, as used sometimes by sociologists without the pejorative connotations of the word, the term refers to renunciation and criticism of, or opposition to, one's former religion. One who commits apostasy is an apostate, or one who apostatizes. The word derives from Greek αποστασία (apostasia), meaning a defection or revolt, from απο, apo, "away, apart", στάσις, stasis, "stand", "standing". The term is sometimes also used to refer to renunciation of a belief or cause by (generally facetious) extension of the religious connotation, such as in reference to a political party or a sports team.
Apostasy is generally not a self-definition: very few former believers call themselves apostates and they generally consider this term to be a pejorative. Many religious movements consider it a vice (sin), a corruption of the virtue of piety in the sense that when piety fails, apostasy is the result. Unlike apostasy, heresy is the rejection or corruption of certain doctrines, not the complete abandonment of one's religion. Heretics claim to still be following a religion (or even to be the "true believers"), whereas apostates reject it entirely. |
I reject several core tenets of Mormonism, at least I understand them but I accept other tenets or at least I believe there are positive aspects of the Mormon community. I consider myself both a heretic and an apostate, though a friendly one.
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"If God exists and His/Her best efforts for our happiness can be that easily thwarted by idiot humans, I am inclined to feel sympathetic at the frustration God would feel." --llave de látigo de Clay |
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star stuff
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 3297
Location: Seattle Area
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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I think Apostate is kind of like Liberal. It has managed to get a bad connotation, and now no one wants to be called one. 
I am an apostate, I have apostatized from the religion I was brought up on. But so are every convert to the church. So are all those pioneers that the church constantly reveres as saints. So were all the original apostles and so was Joseph Smith. They all apostatized from whatever religion they grew up in.
Apostasy is all about leaving what you had for something you feel is better. I don't see anything negative about that. The only ones who do are those who were left behind.
Oh, and Jacob's Favorite.... Love your posts so far, really glad to have you here
_________________
Quote:"We are star stuff which has taken its destiny into its own hands." ~ Carl Sagan |
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Jacob's Favorite
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 724
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, star stuff. I love being here. It's been really good for me...such a relief to find so many like-minded (albeit diverse), struggling friends.
_________________
"Our whole strength rests on the validity of that vision. It either occurred or it did not occur. If it did not, then this work is a fraud." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"We are collateral damage." - henryjacobs |
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NotMolly
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 326
Location: Pootah
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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...
_________________
I won't say I'm no better than anybody else, but I'll be danged if I ain't just as good!
-Aunt Eller (Oklahoma!)
Last edited by NotMolly on Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jacob's Favorite
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 724
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| NotMolly wrote: | | Ha! Now you've got me in the mood to watch The Music Man. And play poker. Or pool...but I'm not as good at pool. |
Great idea for a NOM gathering--movie/game night. We can play poker & pool and read the especially funny passages from Mormon Doctrine.
_________________
"Our whole strength rests on the validity of that vision. It either occurred or it did not occur. If it did not, then this work is a fraud." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"We are collateral damage." - henryjacobs |
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NotMolly
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 326
Location: Pootah
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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...
_________________
I won't say I'm no better than anybody else, but I'll be danged if I ain't just as good!
-Aunt Eller (Oklahoma!)
Last edited by NotMolly on Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Second Gospel
Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 564
Location: Zion
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| NotMolly wrote: | | Which are probably even funnier after a few cocktails. lol |
That could probably be arranged.
_________________
"Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain." |
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just me
I Am
Joined: 10 May 2009
Posts: 1050
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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HAHAHAHA!
That's awesome!
On a more serious note, I have often wondered at what point does one drift so far from mainstream beliefs that they become "apostate?"
I guess now we know. Afterall, I did celebrate Christmas in December and plan to do it again next time it rolls around. LOL
_________________
Love is my religion. My family is my spiritual practice. |
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ff42
Joined: 10 Sep 2008
Posts: 1753
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:25 am Post subject: |
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When one leaves falsehood for truth, one does not apostatise.
_________________
”Most of the harm in the world is done by good people, and not by accident, lapse, or omission. It is the result of their deliberate actions, long persevered in, which they hold to be motivated by high ideals toward virtuous ends.” - Isabel Paterson |
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Second Gospel
Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 564
Location: Zion
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| just me wrote: | | On a more serious note, I have often wondered at what point does one drift so far from mainstream beliefs that they become "apostate?" |
Believing one way or another is one thing. Persuading or encouraging others to believe is typically when the line of apostasy has "officially" been crossed. (Welcome to the other side of the line, nearly everyone here.) I actually thought today on my way to work about whether any members of the strengthening the membership committee were monitoring this forum and could perhaps be making cases against some of us. But then I realized I didn't care.
_________________
"Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain." |
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star stuff
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 3297
Location: Seattle Area
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Believing one way or another is one thing. Persuading or encouraging others to believe is typically when the line of apostasy has "officially" been crossed. |
So kind of like how we encourage new converts to our church to spread the good news to their non member family and friends. i.e. we encourage them to be apostates.
Sigh, we are such hypocrites.
_________________
Quote:"We are star stuff which has taken its destiny into its own hands." ~ Carl Sagan |
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