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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:02 pm 
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Here are two book titles that possibly give documentation of how the mormon europe genealogical records were used by the Nazi's to identify and to kill europe Jews. The other third book given, indirectly relates to this subject if anyone is interested in learning more about this subject.

(1) Chapter three of this book title ( The Nazi State and the New Religions " by Christine Elizabeth King, Phd. ) explains why the Mormons in Nazi germany were the most favored religion in Nazi germany. One reason in a list of reasons given in chapter three, is a similarity of interests in genealogy. Also in chapter 3 it states: " Mormon researchers were quite happy to use the records for the purpose for which they were intended and many received letters of praise from the government for their zeal in tracing their Aryan ancestry" and that's letters of praise from the Nazi government. The lie to LDS, is that the Nazi's were only interested in finding the Jewish. Where are copies of these "many" letters of praise sent to the Mormon genealogy researchers by the Nazi government ? Why is the Mormon church not honest about what really happened ? Regarding the terms used above "tracing their Aryan ancestry", note that these terms could mean to find the non-aryan or rather the Jewish, and it could have also involved searching other peoples names and not any of the names of the Nazi's. Why would the Nazi's really be interested in verifying their own Aryan ancestry, when the Nazi's knew that they themselves would be gone if some hidden jewishness was found within their own genealogical history ? Were the Nazi's so courageous to risk their own lives with this helpful information that they requested from the mormons ?

(2) The title "Mormonism in Germany; a history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Germany between 1840 and 1970", by Gilbert W. Scharffs, on page 88 STATES THAT GERMANY'S GENEALOGICAL RECORDS WERE MADE AVAILABLE TO THE MORMONS ( THAT PREVIOUSLY THE MORMONS WERE NOT ALLOWED TO LOOK AT ) AFTER HITLER WAS ELECTED IN 1933. This statement has an implication that the Nazi's were using the Mormons to help find all the Jewish ( the true genealogical research desire of the Nazi's ). ALSO BEGINNING ON PAGE 143 OF THIS BOOK, IT IS STATED THAT THE GERMAN MORMON GENEALOGICAL RECORDS WERE STOLEN BY THE NAZI'S ( AN IMPLICATION TO FIND THE JEWISH ). This book also describes what was involved with the Mormons getting these stolen mormon genealogical records returned to them after the war was over. This book also states that a mormon jewish genealogy file was returned to the Mormons.

(3) Another book "IBM and the Holocaust" by Edwin Black documents how the Nazi's used the first IBM card sorting machines to very quickly identify who were jewish, and in particular to quickly identify the jewish who tried to hide their jewish genealogy background.

There is an unmentioned implication in this book that since the Nazi's used the same IBM card sorting machines that had been commonly used in the USA in the 1930's, that faithful USA believers of Nazi Germany, who lived within the USA, could have helped the Nazi's in their common celestial genealogical pursuits by having the genealogical IBM punch cards first punched within the USA, and then delivered these punched cards to Nazi Germany for celestial Nazi genealogical processing. Many americans had access to these first IBM card sorting machines, because many americans worked for the many large US corporations that used these same IBM card sorting machines that the Nazi's used.

PLEASE NOTE: All three of these book titles that are given in this post may be available for a free loan to you by using your local library's special interlibrary-loan catalog and interlibrary-loan book request procedure.

( Please note that no mormons ever intended to harm anyone, and that all this possible genealogical research help given to the Nazi's by the mormons was done with clear intentions of trickery from the Nazi's. The book title ( The Nazi State and the New Religions " by Christine Elizabeth King, Phd. ) also mentions that when the Nazi government first began in 1933, many mormons ( as the same for very many other people who were not Mormon ) were very strong believers in this new Nazi government because of the many false promises and false propaganda. It took a number of years before people could actually determine that the Nazi government was really about something very much different, than what the Nazi government promised in it's propaganda. )


Last edited by Trader on Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:08 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:22 pm 
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If either of these books has a verifiable reference to the Nazi government actually using mormon genealogical records to find jews for persecution, I will eat my hat. This is just sensationalism for its own sake.

I'll give you a hint at why I am skeptical. The present day notion of redeeming the dead, and it's prominent position in the doctrine of the church, is quite a recent development. There was SOME research done before the war, but most has been done in the last 40 years, and mostly done in Utah. How many mormons were there in pre-war Germany? Maybe 1000? Tops?

It is a fallacy to believe that mormons are always evil.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:30 pm 
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I hope your genes aren't reproducible.

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Agitatrs r a set o intefering, medling people, who come down t som perfctly contnted clas o the comunty n sow th seeds o discntent amngst them. Tht is th reason y agitators r so abslutly necsry. Witout thm thre wud b no advnce toward civlisation O. Wilde


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:18 pm 
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This info doesn't add up. Why would Mormons do that? Seriously they would be signing their own death warrant.

I think conclusions are being jumped to. Besides, half the time Mormons think they are Jews.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:20 pm 
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Luckychucky wrote:
Besides, half the time Mormons think they are Jews.


What??? You mean we aren't??? But my PB says I am a descendent of Ephraim! :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:35 pm 
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I should have mentioned in my first post above, that no mormons ever intended to harm anyone, and that all this genealogical research help given to the Nazi's by the mormons was done with clear intentions of trickery from the Nazi's. The book title ( The Nazi State and the New Religions " by Christine Elizabeth King, Phd. ) also mentions that when the Nazi government first began in 1933, many mormons ( as the same for many other people ) were very strong believers in this new Nazi government because of the many false promises and false propaganda. It took a number of years before people could actually determine that the Nazi government was really about something very much different, than what it promised in the propaganda.

I did not make this statement in the first post, because I made a mistake thinking that people knew this or would have assumed it.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:10 pm 
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Fascinating.

Well I guess dead people are easier to baptize than living ones. God works in mysterious ways. Makes sense to me. Any takers?

Reviews provided by the publisher:

Quote:
Reviews

". . . extremely well documented . . . a scholarly work which deserves to be read not only by members of the sects discussed but also by Christians and scholars generally. It fills a gap in the story of Christianity's encounter with Nazism." - Arthur C. Cochrane

"In this pioneering study, Christine King focuses on five of the more important sects in Nazi Germany: Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Christian Science, and the New Apostolic Church. With the aid of two principal kinds of source, police reports and the sectarian press, she seeks to explain their very different fates. This leads her to two major areas of investigation: the factors influencing Nazi policy towards religious bodies; and the varying survival strategies adopted by the sects themselves. . . . [A] comparative study of this kind provides an excellent means of analysing the methods and motives of religious persecution, and the possibilities of toleration, in the Third Reich." - European History Quarterly



The book costs 119 USD, which is a bit more than I want to pay at the moment. Sounds intriguing. I had no idea those were the five most important sects in Germany.

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Agitatrs r a set o intefering, medling people, who come down t som perfctly contnted clas o the comunty n sow th seeds o discntent amngst them. Tht is th reason y agitators r so abslutly necsry. Witout thm thre wud b no advnce toward civlisation O. Wilde


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:22 pm 
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Another book "IBM and the Holocaust" by Edwin Black documents how the Nazi's used the first IBM card sorting machines to very quickly identify who were jewish, and in particular to quickly identify the jewish who tried to hide their jewish genealogy background.

There is an unmentioned implication in this book that since the Nazi's used the same IBM card sorting machines that had been commonly used in the USA in the 1930's, that faithful USA believers of Nazi Germany, who lived within the USA, could have helped the Nazi's in their common celestial genealogical pursuits by having the genealogical IBM punch cards first punched within the USA, and then delivered these punched cards to Nazi Germany for celestial Nazi genealogical processing. Many americans had access to these first IBM card sorting machines, because many americans worked for the many large US corporations that used these same IBM card sorting machines that the Nazi's used.

PLEASE NOTE: All three of these book titles that are given in this post may be available for a free loan to you by using your local library's special interlibrary-loan catalog and interlibrary-loan book request procedure.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:49 pm 
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The youtube video given below makes reference to the american mormon missionaries who miraculously all escaped Nazi Germany just days before WWII began in September of 1939, and all eventually safely returned to the USA.

I watched this video a year ago, and it has been altered since then, and for at least one period of time it was completely removed from youtube. All of this present video was all within the video of a year ago.

Missing is mention about several other false warnings to leave prior to WWII, that actually helped the missionaries to become better prepared with doing what was needed when the time to go was given.

But, related to this post topic, the present video only mentions the total of 31 american missionaries who had special difficulties with leaving at the last moment, and who all safely got out of Nazi Germany. But this video of a year ago mentioned a total number of american missionaries who left Nazi Germany in September of 1939 as a number closer to a total of 700, as I don't remember the exact number given. Seven Hundred Mormon missionaries helping the Nazi Government with the possibility of genealogical research help would represent significant help with Nazi genealogical research.

Here is the Youtube video:

Title: LDS Missionaries in Nazi Germany - Not One Was Lost

Web Address: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIAt4HnP8Ok


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:02 pm 
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Say Trader,

What do you like to do for fun. So far I see you as kinda a one topic guy. But I know that can't be the whole Trader.

So what's the story morning glory?

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Agitatrs r a set o intefering, medling people, who come down t som perfctly contnted clas o the comunty n sow th seeds o discntent amngst them. Tht is th reason y agitators r so abslutly necsry. Witout thm thre wud b no advnce toward civlisation O. Wilde


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:10 pm 
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I would appreciate anyones advice and help as to how to locate this reference item " West German Mission, MS History, 31 December 1945 ". I just located my old notes regarding this reference item, that I had previously desired to find and to read. The LDS library in SLC could not offer any help or ideas of how to locate this item. Also, I tried emailing the author "Christine Elizabeth King", and she never responded to my email.

This reference item was given in the book titled "The Nazi State and the New Religions" by Christine Elizabeth King, for the following statement which was located within about the 20th paragraph from the beginning of the third chapter of this book. This statement in the book was given as follows "In the process, of course, the Mormon researchers were quite happy to use the records for the purpose for which they were intended and many received letters of praise from the government for their zeal in tracing their Aryan ancestry." I am sure that this statement refers to genealogical research help given to the Nazi's by the Mormon LDS genealogy researchers.

This statement had a reference ( numbered ) item that was given besides this statement in King's book as follows: " West German Mission, Mormon Saints History, 31 December 1945 ".

What I am interested in locating is this title "West German Mission, Mormon Saints History, 31 December 1945 " and I do not have the authors name, as none was given. This title refers to the source of Christine Kings statement in her book, that I want to get more information about. The statement in her book first had a little number by the book's statement, and then the same number that was listed at the end of that same chapter gave this title " West German Mission, Mormon Saints History, 31 December 1945 ".


I would appreciate anyones advice and help as to how to locate this reference item. Maybe some reference librarian in a library somewhere would have a good idea of how to find this title.


Last edited by Trader on Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:29 pm 
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Trader,

"West German Mission, Mormon Saints History, 31 December 1945 "

Sounds like a made up reference to me. It sounds like she is trying to point to a church or mission history. If true, it would not be called "Mormon Saints." I've never heard that term.

You could explore histories made of the West German Mission during that time frame through the church. I suggest you start with the West German Mission Manuscript History at the LDS archives, Salt Lake City, Utah.


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