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 Post subject: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 8:27 pm 
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So, I am new here. Can you guys please explain to me why everyone is so negative abou Boyd k. Packer? I guess I just haven't paid that much attention to him.


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 Post subject: Re: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 8:59 pm 
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The best way to address this issue is to think in terms of what it means to be a True Believing Mormon (TBM). Not all TBMs are created equal. Some LDS leaders follow the simple teachings of Jesus and espouse love and good will in their thoughts and sermons. Dieter Uchtdorf is the prime archetype for this type of TBM. Then there are those TBMs who are able to embrace the entire scope of our peculiarities and mold their true belief into something harsh and unyielding, tempered not by love and forgiveness, but rather the white hot burning of gospel righteousness. Boyd K. Packer represents the prime archetype for this TBM style.

Many here lack the white hot burning of Gospel Righteousness that would allow them to full appreciate President Packer.

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Well then, go for it schmucks. Make my dispensation!"

- Elder C. Harry Callahan, Glendale 2nd Ward, 1907


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 Post subject: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 10:07 pm 
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He is too condemning of our gay brothers and sisters, plain and simple.

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 Post subject: Re: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 10:10 pm 
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He has a history of being not just an "iron rod" Mormon, as Moksha points out, but also the champion of what many find oppressive and offensive. He has spoken out against gays and even gave a talk where he condoned a missionary punching his gay companion for "making a pass" at him. He gave the "little factory" talk that led to oh so many young men loathing themselves for not being able to control something that turns out to be perfectly natural. He gave the speech where the "mantle is far far greater than the intellect," wherein church historians were admonished not to "spread disease germs" (of truth) and not all truths are useful (therefore it's OK to "lie for the Lord"). He was probably the motivation for the excommunication of the "September Six," LDS intellectuals who were kicked out of the church for talking about things like Mother in Heaven. For this and more, he is a lightning rod for many disaffected LDS.

fh451

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 Post subject: Re: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 11:31 pm 
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First, I like the title of this thread. The mere mention of this name stirs a lot of negative feelings for many NOMs. He represents a strain in Mormonism that is authoritative, paternal, strict, intolerant, and anti-intellectual. fh451 named a few of his specific controversial actions. My impression is that he wishes not only to be understood, he wishes to be obeyed. His teachings are not meant to inform or enlighten, but to compel to obedience. He seems to believe that he is the arbiter of truth, meaning that a statement is true because he says it is. The ability to create truth- to make something true by saying that it's true- is a hallmark of the strain of authoritarian Mormonism that he represents (I don't know a whole lot about BR McConkie, but he seems to fit in this strain as well.) BKP teaches doctrines in ways that other Q15 members don't and in ways that do indeed seem to be more effective in eliciting obedience. He seems more persuaded than others that he has the right answers and appears to feel more justified than others in using unusual and ethically questionable methods to push his agenda.

BKP was an authoritarian figure of my seminary days, and his name seems to carry more weight than the other names in the Q15. He has a way of portraying "sin" as being much worse than the actual damage done by an immoral act. I think he does a lot of damage to the more sincere bunch of Church members who do want to be obedient by creating a punishment that is far greater than the crime. I think he's power hungry, which is why he seems so concerned with what ordinary people do with their lives and doesn't seem content with giving only enlightening (rather than morally instructive) messages. He wants people to do what he tells them to do, and that's bothersome many of us. Personally, I confess that I can't stand listening to him.


Last edited by InquiringMind on Sun May 26, 2013 10:10 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 11:34 pm 
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He's not very warm and fuzzy. He doesn't talk about visiting widows or nice things like that. He doesn't talk about airplanes and have a cool accent that makes him sound like the Terminator. He looks kind of grumpy a lot. He's a little paranoid about gays, feminists, and intellectuals. He wants to drag the Church backwards in time about 50 years. He enjoys offending people who don't agree with him when giving General Conference talks. He gets involved in the excommunications of dissenters from the Church. He values usefulness over truth. He thinks testicles are factories, and he wants to shut them all down.

OK, those are some of the cons. To be fair, he has some pros - he hates meetings, and he says that family time is sacred time, a quote I like, except that he is a high leader in an organization that steals a lot of it, so his words ring a little hollow. I don't think he ever messed around with teenage girls or married women, so in my book that makes him better than certain former Church leaders.

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Find the purest place in your heart and spend as much time there as you can...let it ever guide your actions, for you will find that when you act with kindness and compassion you will be right far more often than you are wrong.


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 Post subject: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 1:26 am 
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I believe he is the author of the phrase, "some things that are true, are not very useful" meaning basically that any part of church history that is not faith promoting should be hidden. This causes all of us to feel lied to and betrayed when we find the truth about the church origins.

He teaches people to essentially hate themselves. This is especially damaging to our gay friends, who science shows were really born (made?) that way. He's a bit like Kimball was, you are never good enough.

I remember that a reporter referred to him as a "hard-liner." I think that is a pretty good description of him. His manner is more like the God of the Old Testament than the Jesus of the New Testament.

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 Post subject: Re: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 6:20 pm 
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Exmos dislike his gay hatred. It is highly offensive. Many exmos believe he is actually gay and will insult him by saying his middle name is Fudge.

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Everything the apologists write/say is unofficial, the church doesn't stand behind it so you have to ask yourself why do we have to accept this if the leaders of the church aren't prepared to stand behind it, even when they are paying the salaries.


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 Post subject: Re: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 6:45 pm 
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I have heard of stories of Elder Packer being kind to people. Some of his insights about teaching have been helpful to me.When I think of his words "sometimes the truth isn't very useful" I worry about what he isn't saying. I think he encourages a 'them vs. us' battle mentality that could justify doing wrong for a good cause.

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 Post subject: Re: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:29 pm 
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epiginosko wrote:
He is too condemning of our gay brothers and sisters, plain and simple.


Anti-intellectual too.

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 Post subject: Re: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:47 pm 
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anti-intellectual, homophobic, anti-feminist, anti-liberal, xenophobic fear monger. Where are the Hugh B Browns in this group? Where!?

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 Post subject: Re: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 10:52 pm 
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I'm in the minority here on NOM, but Boyd K. Packer is one of the apostles I view more favorably. It's not that I agree with his views (I don't), but I appreciate his transparency. I feel like when Boyd K. Packer talks, I am listening to the authentic Boyd K. Packer and I like knowing exactly where he stands. Plus, I think many (if not most) church leaders hold the same views as he does they just are not as transparent about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:00 pm 
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monomo wrote:
I'm in the minority here on NOM, but Boyd K. Packer is one of the apostles I view more favorably. It's not that I agree with his views (I don't), but I appreciate his transparency. I feel like when Boyd K. Packer talks, I am listening to the authentic Boyd K. Packer and I like knowing exactly where he stands. Plus, I think many (if not most) church leaders hold the same views as he does they just are not as transparent about it.

I'll agree with the authenticity thing. When I listen to TSM I really don't think I'm getting the real TSM.


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 Post subject: Re: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:28 pm 
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InquiringMind wrote:
monomo wrote:
I'm in the minority here on NOM, but Boyd K. Packer is one of the apostles I view more favorably. It's not that I agree with his views (I don't), but I appreciate his transparency. I feel like when Boyd K. Packer talks, I am listening to the authentic Boyd K. Packer and I like knowing exactly where he stands. Plus, I think many (if not most) church leaders hold the same views as he does they just are not as transparent about it.

I'll agree with the authenticity thing. When I listen to TSM I really don't think I'm getting the real TSM.


Even in my young, teenage, uber-TBM days, Monson always struck me as fake. Something in the tone of his voice and cadence of his speech.

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 Post subject: Re: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 4:00 pm 
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This answers all you need to know about Boyd.

Naming building after Boyd Packer a 'slap in the face'
http://www.standard.net/stories/2013/05 ... -slap-face

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Everything the apologists write/say is unofficial, the church doesn't stand behind it so you have to ask yourself why do we have to accept this if the leaders of the church aren't prepared to stand behind it, even when they are paying the salaries.


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 Post subject: Re: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 12:23 am 
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BevMo wrote:
This answers all you need to know about Boyd.

Naming building after Boyd Packer a 'slap in the face'
http://www.standard.net/stories/2013/05 ... -slap-face


Atomic Facepalm.

On the bright side, it is likely that the building that bears his name will soon serve the kinds of families that he so often railed against. I'll have to steer clear of magnets, because that's some tasty irony, right there.

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 Post subject: Re: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 8:01 am 
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Last edited by Anya on Sat May 31, 2014 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:09 am 
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Speculator wrote:
InquiringMind wrote:
I'll agree with the authenticity thing. When I listen to TSM I really don't think I'm getting the real TSM.

Even in my young, teenage, uber-TBM days, Monson always struck me as fake. Something in the tone of his voice and cadence of his speech.

Have you ever noticed how TSM's stories are almost always about what a great guy TSM is/was?


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 Post subject: Re: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:17 am 
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I friend of mine (seminary teacher) attended a training meeting where BKP was the speaker. When the crowd did not hush when he came in the room, he went to the pulpit and said that they were not ready to hear the word of God...and left.

My friend was so impressed. I was not.


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 Post subject: Re: Boyd k. Packer
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:22 am 
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Hypatia wrote:
Because he's a grizzly bear and not even Elder Oaks can stage manage him.


Not dancing on cue is less worrisome than the claw and tooth marks left on the audience, as well as all those bear patties.


Quote:
I friend of mine (seminary teacher) attended a training meeting where BKP was the speaker. When the crowd did not hush when he came in the room, he went to the pulpit and said that they were not ready to hear the word of God...and left.


Rex Imperius Quo Rameupmtom.

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"You Goyim have to ask yourselves, do you feel lucky?
Well then, go for it schmucks. Make my dispensation!"

- Elder C. Harry Callahan, Glendale 2nd Ward, 1907


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