New Order Mormon

(A New Hope)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:32 am 
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There has been much discussion on here regarding Packer's talk yesterday along with many other comments that reflect feelings about him.

I read quite a few of the posts on other forums, blogs and websites yesterday too and I read something that made me wonder if Packer will actually be the next Prophet (of course time will tell, and also of course, IF he is still alive he WILL be the next President and Prophet).

The poster of the comment I'm referring to stated that they had always thought of Boyd K. Packer as the "hatchet man" and that "the leaders knew from the start he would most likely not out live Monson" so he has been the one to speak more boldly on certain topics. "This way they can have someone who is out there to chastise and keep the church in line who doesn't have to account for his sayings as a prophet."

It went on to state that this is most likely why Packer doesn't serve in the first presidency as he doesn't have to be trained or "learn the job" like Monson and others did by serving in the first presidency for so long. This is why Eyring and Uchtdorf are Monson's counselors.

I found those comments to be interesting and hadn't really thought about Packer not being in the first presidency. This also just could be an outward indication of a behind the scenes division. I think Packer would not be an easy person to have as a counselor with his strong personality and opinions.

Anyway....does anyone know the health situations of Monson vs. Packer and if he may very well outlive Monson? IIRC, Packer is 2 or 3 years older than Monson.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:41 am 
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Those kinds of things are largely kept under wraps. President Packer seems to be in very poor shape. I would be shocked if President Monson were to die first.

As a matter of fact, if I were in a position to do so, then I would surround President Monson with a complete medical team at all times and keep him from traveling.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:06 am 
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If he somehow outlives Monson there will be mass resignations.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:15 am 
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Packer as a next Prophet? He's not charismatic enough to carry the whole Church. I think that for the next few years or even the next decade, we're going to be lackluster in the Prophet department. When Hinckley died, the Church's prophet charisma died with him. There was so much emphasis on the "prophet" this last weekend that I couldn't help but ask myself: What exactly have they prophecied, either the 15 or the 70? Do you know? That's 85 prophets, seers and revelators, right? Any prophecies out of 85 people?
What could Packer possibly prophecy in terms of homosexuality and the fate of members and non-members who don't follow traditional man-woman relationships?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:38 am 
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I myself am confident that BKP will be removed from his position by the Lord in due time. (Shortly I hope). But I very much doubt he will ever become prophet.

And just a comment about the first presidency, it is common for the Prophet to select counselors who are younger and more vital so that they can do the work. If the first presidency was all made up of the senior members of the Q-12, they would all be too old to function.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:48 am 
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I think it is pretty unlikely that Elder Packer will be prophet, but I personally really hope he is too infirm at the time to do too much. I think he could be a disastrous prophet for anyone who tries to walk the middle path.

The one apostle I am most worried about is Elder Bednar. He will likely be prophet one day, more likely than any of the rest of them, as he is so young and ahead of the other young apostles. He strikes me as being a shallow thinker, bland and a bit of a Packer junior.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:05 am 
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star stuff wrote:
I think it is pretty unlikely that Elder Packer will be prophet, but I personally really hope he is too infirm at the time to do too much. I think he could be a disastrous prophet for anyone who tries to walk the middle path.

The one apostle I am most worried about is Elder Bednar. He will likely be prophet one day, more likely than any of the rest of them, as he is so young and ahead of the other young apostles. He strikes me as being a shallow thinker, bland and a bit of a Packer junior.


Yes, I worry about Bednar also. His talk on the Holy Ghost was grating to my nerves. You can read my opinion over on that thread, but he has had several talks that while not hateful and judgmental like Packer are just sort of STUPID. Pickles anyone? He just seems so shallow, with less maturity than your average return missionary. But then at least he attempts to talk about doctrine instead of just telling stories about old widows.

Ever since about 1970 when Packer was so nasty about Feminsits, intellectuals, and homosexuals, I have said that if Packer ever becomes prophet I am going to resign membership.

People are wondering if Packer is "playing bad cop" to Monson's "good cop" but I think he has always been a judgemental self righteous jerk and there is no "playing" bad cop at all, he just IS a rotten cop.

He just inadvertently makes Monson look sweet by comparison.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:41 am 
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Mr_Bean wrote:
If he somehow outlives Monson there will be mass resignations.


lol

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:51 am 
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The situation is not without precedent. Many people worried about what would happen should E.T. Benson become the president of the Church. He did, but thankfully the sky didn't fall down. I would wait and see what happens if BKP becomes prez before panicking.

That said, I wish Thomas S. Monson a long and healthy life! ;)

L


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:57 am 
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So if Packer does die before Monson, who is next in line for the position?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:07 pm 
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AllieOop wrote:
I read something that made me wonder if Packer will actually be the next Prophet (of course time will tell, and also of course, IF he is still alive he WILL be the next President and Prophet).


The mere thought of this send shivers down my spine. I can only hope that IF Packer was to become Prophet, he would lower his tone some like others have done before him when they became prophet, and perhaps come to the realization that what he says from the podium can do real harm to the organization as well as the individual --- and that he will be held accountable for it.

It seems to me that when these men become THE PROPHET, they limit the amount of rhetoric and become much less outspoken.

I think even Monson did this to some extent. I mean, he's kind of hanging out on the sidelines and letting the other 14 play ball. I haven't heard a really good talk from him since he become prophet, yet in the 90's he was always in middle of things.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:32 pm 
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cwald wrote:
I think even Monson did this to some extent. I mean, he's kind of hanging out on the sidelines and letting the other 14 play ball. I haven't heard a really good talk from him since he become prophet, yet in the 90's he was always in middle of things.

I agree. Isn't that ironic though? I mean, he IS the Prophet....why is he on the sidelines?

The first time I realized I felt this was when Hinckley spoke in conference. During GC I remember that I always gathered my children around the TV, woke them up if they were dosing off, and made a point that they needed to listen because THE PROPHET was now speaking. Then he'd just sort of give a lighthearted, "I love you, thanks for watching" fluff speech. Maybe it was expecting too much to think we would get something profound when the prophet spoke. His talks did have more substance than Monson's though and he was WAY more endearing and enjoyable to listen to.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:41 pm 
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tanis wrote:
So if Packer does die before Monson, who is next in line for the position?


Here is the seniority and ages for the 15:

Thomas S. Monson 83 years old
Boyd K. Packer 86
L. Tom Perry 88
Russell M. Nelson 86
Dallin H. Oaks 78
M. Russell Ballard, Jr. 81
Richard G. Scott 81
Robert D. Hales 78
Jeffrey R. Holland 69
Henry B. Eyring 77
Dieter F. Uchtdorf 69
David A. Bednar 58
Quentin L. Cook 70
D. Todd Christofferson 65
Neil L. Andersen 59

Holland is 12 years younger than anyone above him. I would not enjoy a Holland presidency at all. He used to be one of my favorites, but now when I listen to him all I hear is anger, condescension, and sanctimoniousness. I tried listening to his talk Saturday and didn't last but 2 minutes. And that was a hard 2 minutes.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:51 pm 
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Yes - a likely scenario is Oaks -> Holland -> Bednar. By the time Bednar becomes prophet, he will be close to 80 years old. Of course, longevity is a fickle thing - you never know when any of them might die suddenly from stroke, heart attack, or a little less suddenly from cancer.

In some ways I feel sorry for these guys. Can you imagine getting to be 70 or so years old and thinking "Man, I'm going to be doing this for the REST OF MY LIFE!" For me, that would be a major drag.

fh451

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:53 pm 
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fh451 wrote:
In some ways I feel sorry for these guys. Can you imagine getting to be 70 or so years old and thinking "Man, I'm going to be doing this for the REST OF MY LIFE!" For me, that would be a major drag.


Now that made me laugh out loud... !!!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:19 pm 
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fh451 wrote:
Yes - a likely scenario is Oaks -> Holland -> Bednar.

Image Image Image

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:31 pm 
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I doubt that he will make it to the position of church president. He is just too far up there in years and I would bet that he go's a bit before Monson does. If he does make it I predict his presidency will have the longevity of Howard Hunters.

I personally lay odds on Jefery Holland as the next President followed by Uctdorf and Bednar as alternatives. Of course, as has been pointed out, there are tons of unpredictable variables that could change things. I am betting, however, that the second coming isn't one of them.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:02 pm 
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Liberal Mormon wrote:
fh451 wrote:
Yes - a likely scenario is Oaks -> Holland -> Bednar.

Image Image Image


LOL!!! LM you freaking crack me up :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:55 pm 
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GoldenRule wrote:
Liberal Mormon wrote:
fh451 wrote:
Yes - a likely scenario is Oaks -> Holland -> Bednar.

Image Image Image


LOL!!! LM you freaking crack me up :lol: :lol: :lol:

I could tell you were in a deep blue funk earlier and I'm so glad I put a smile on your face. :lol: :wink: Image Image

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And not to spend the time just doubting

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:23 pm 
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It might be sort of interesting to have Packer as prophet. Just think of all the controversy. Maybe things would be brought to a head and everything could get jumbled up and we could see where all the pieces land. It would be interesting.

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