New Order Mormon

(A New Hope)
It is currently Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:43 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 81
Location: Layton, UT
For those of you not in the know, I am a feminist. Apparently, I always have been, but never thought of myself as such until recently. I always thought of "feminist" as being a dirty word. Thanks Pres. Packer.

So, a HUGE part of my faith crisis is seeing how women are generally treated in the LDS church. I used to think that women were treated great. But then I thought back to my growing up years, and what I see happening now. I remember by brothers getting to do cub scouts. My mom was the Den Leader, but I still wasn't allowed to participate. They didn't have Achievement Days back then. I was so upset when they got to go to day camps, and build derby cars, and do all of those cool things. I begged my mom to let me be in Girl Scouts. My mom thought they were too liberal minded and didn't want them influencing. Guess that didn't work out very well, did it? LOL.

When I was a little older I was out playing rugby with my bros and their buddies. I was pretty dang good at it, too. But then my dad came out and told me I couldn't play any more, because it "wasn't appropriate for a young lady to be rolling around in the dirt." I was humiliated and angry, and it was one of the things that changed the relationship I had with my dad.

A lot of other stuff happened, and I always felt cheated that I wasn't allowed to do something, just because I was born with a uterus. Which, by the way, doesn't even work. Things have not gotten a whole lot better for me, concerning the way the church is run (by men). I could go on and on about how women are made to feel they have so much to contribute, but we can't really do anything without the authority of the priesthood, which is strictly for men only.

So this past Saturday I went to a big Tri-Stake event with Sis Nelson (apostles wife) and Sheri Dew as the speakers. It started out fine. I thought Sis Nelson gave a nice talk on service and loving others. I was really excited to hear from Sheri Dew. I have always admired her. She is a powerful woman, and "real". She never spoke in that obnoxious "Relief Society Voice" that you always hear at GC. So patronizing.

Anyway, I was excited to hear from her, and she started out telling us that we women are strong when we stand together, we can accomplish great things, etc. It was great! THEN, she starts telling us how ridiculous (her word) it was for anyone to think that women are being "oppressed" in the church. Here's a general clip of what she said (different meeting, same general message):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?client=mv- ... nomobile=1

I loved how she listed all accomplishments. Good for her. She has had some great success. But that is not everyone's story, and she stood in front of a room full of thousands of women, mocking those who felt any different. She had the whole room laughing at the absurdity of such "wayward" thinking. I was so angry I was literally shaking. I didn't know if I wanted to storm out or go right up on the stage and call her out for her un-Christlike, judgmental attitude. It hurt a lot to hear her say those things. Like what I felt didn't matter. Or worse, was all in my head.

I was thinking about writing her a letter to explain "the other side of the story", and to let her know that her words were very hurtful. She could have made a much stronger point if she had taught more with love, instead of putting down others.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:13 am
Posts: 462
I only saw an 8-minute clip that was posted on fMH. While I appreciate that Sheri Dew serves as a breath of fresh air (a woman who doesn't fit the stereotypical sing-song, passive Molly Mormon mold), watching this clip just reinforces what I already felt about her: She seems to be one of "them" (The "brethren) more than one of "us" (average LDS women). In other words, she appears to be a "token" female who is "allowed" (maybe even encouraged) to have a powerful voice...As long as she says all the "right" things.

I don't want to stand in judgment of Sheri D, or her experiences as a single woman in the church. But, I don't think that she has the same expectations placed on her (in her role as woman, and "helpmeet") as there are on me--- a married woman who "must" remember my "place" under the priesthood "head of household" (my husband). If I hadn't married at age 20, I probably would've gone to medical school & stayed single the rest of my life. I'm guessing, but I don't think I would be as hurt or "oppressed" by the gender inequality at church if I felt like I had gotten the chance to pursue more of my life's dreams.

I think Sheri D. gave this talk from an honest place. However, it is an autonomous place of privilege-- much like that is enjoyed by the GAs and Q15. She travels around the world, meeting with people's adoration and praise. She enjoys power, prestige, and (probably) a very generous paycheck. How representative is that of the average LDS woman's experience? It is nothing like mine. (But, I wouldn't trade my DH or any one of my 5 beautiful kiddos! :D )

I'm glad that she has power and status as a woman in the church. I just wish she would try to see things from others' (including feminists') perspectives, and not speak so dismissively of our valid experiences and feelings. We need her as an ally...not a critic.

Just for the record, I am fortunate to have a relatively equal marriage & a DH who never plays the Priesthood (or head of household) card. I'm speaking more from the attitudes I get from other people and lessons at church.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:07 pm
Posts: 1493
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain
I think Ms. Dew' s talk illustrates the problem. I don't have any desire to have the priesthood. But I hunger for the same respect inside the church that I found in the world around me.

I'm tired of being Teh Little Woman. Of mentioning a win at work and being asked who makes the bed in my house. (True story. I told him, "Whoever get' s up last. Isn't that how it's supposed to be?")

We shouldn't have to work this hard for equality in 2013. Ms. Dew is showing herself to be part of the problem, not the solution.

River



Edited to correct some iPhone "corrections"

_________________
Kate Kelly is my granddaughters' hero. They don't know it yet. But I do.


Last edited by River Morgan on Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 81
Location: Layton, UT
Yes, I agree with both of you. Sheri Dew has led a very different life than many other women in the church. That is not to say she always had it so easy. I can only imagine how difficult it really is to be an unwed, childless woman in this church. I've had a taste of that myself, and find it unpalatable. I am left to wonder why, after the trials she must have faced, that she can then stand before a whole room of women and tell them that their opinions don't always count. Brainwashing at it's finest!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:15 pm
Posts: 2421
Location: Colorado
She gets a mighty fine paycheck....

_________________
NOM spouse and best friend: Socrates

"Daring greatly means finding our own path and respecting what that search looks like for other folks."
~Brene Brown, Daring Greatly


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:04 am
Posts: 1212
Location: midwest (omaha!)
Women are awesome....that's why I married one!

However with all due respect to Sheri Dew....with all her accomplishments, accolades, etc.....

My 12 year old Deacon son has more authority and power than she has in the church! She can't even preside at a meeting!

Therein lays the problem!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:09 pm
Posts: 3894
my friend who works for the church claims all the GA's know that sherri Dew is lesbian, and are okay with it. just passing this on FWIW


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:27 pm
Posts: 3785
Location: In your head... and maybe under your skin.
MoJO wrote:
She gets a mighty fine paycheck....



She does... and she's not about rock that boat, not even for one second. They own her.

_________________
- Hermey

Never sacrifice who you are because someone else has a problem with it.

People don't have a faith problem, the church has a truth problem, and all the "StayLDS" in the world isn't going to change that.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:52 am
Posts: 1453
Location: The land eastward
@six,

As one of those men in the church that have "run everything" in the past, I couldn't agree more with your post. So the one thing that I learned in church that might be of any value, for any women or girls that I might have not supported as fully as I should have, and for not standing with them in their fight for equality and rights, I humbly beg for your forgiveness. I was wrong, totally wrong, but I've learned, and I won't be silent any more.

-lost

_________________
Where I Come From, We Believe All Sorts Of Things That Aren't True. We Call It History.

There Are Precious Few At Ease With Moral Ambiguities, So We Act As Though They Don't Exist
-The Wizard


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:53 pm
Posts: 675
Hermey wrote:
MoJO wrote:
She gets a mighty fine paycheck....



She does... and she's not about rock that boat, not even for one second. They own her.


I don't know much about Sherry Dew. But from what I gather here, she is the token single woman. I wonder if, knowing how influential she is, snagged her to "their" side before she could have an unwanted affect on women in general. Because if she was not up there with them, she might be more of a feminist and possibly a spokeswoman for the equality in the church.

_________________
Through the Night She Shed a Light Blending blacks Shifting whites Creating greys Fading lights Peaking colors Evolve Ignite Transitional shades Cycles of days New comings of nights -I.C.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:09 pm
Posts: 3894
when i was at byu, we used to get drunk on a cocktail we called the "sherri dew" . can't remember what was in it besides mountain dew. any suggestions?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:52 am
Posts: 1453
Location: The land eastward
AndyD wrote:
when i was at byu, we used to get drunk on a cocktail we called the "sherri dew" . can't remember what was in it besides mountain dew. any suggestions?


Take Mountain Dew
add some whine
a few tears
and let sit in the sunshine.

-lost

_________________
Where I Come From, We Believe All Sorts Of Things That Aren't True. We Call It History.

There Are Precious Few At Ease With Moral Ambiguities, So We Act As Though They Don't Exist
-The Wizard


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:41 pm
Posts: 23
What do women get? A lot of the dirty work and none of the street cred. Lol.


Last edited by Anonymity Jane on Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:22 pm
Posts: 2699
I kinda don't understand how Bruce R. McKonkie's quote in there is actually true. Everything that "women get" in regards to leadership, teaching, etc, is approved of or given or mediated by a man!
Even, if you believe in this, revelation (from heavenly father) and the atonement (from Jesus).

_________________
"How in the name of Krypton were you able to break free from the mind probe when no one else could?" Superman


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:46 pm
Posts: 150
Top Comment:

false doctrine: "Women are at the very center of the Plan of Salvation"
correction: Jesus Christ and His atonement are at the very center of the Plan of Salvation.

Gag.

_________________
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:25 pm
Posts: 1009
Hey Six,
I can totally relate. I grew up with 3 brothers and my mom was a Cub Scout den leader. I was expected to do girl chores while my brothers only had to mow the lawn and take out the trash. There were 3 of them, so they didn't have to do much, yet I always had dishes, dusting, and vacuuming. I watched my mother spend hours with my brothers helping them with pinewood derby cars, while I got nothing. No achievement days or Girl Scouts. I have a lot of resentment about it.

Are you on the Feminist Mormon Housewives Facebook page? There are a lot of educated, inspirational women over there.

_________________
"The apple cannot be stuck back on the Tree of Knowledge; once we begin to see, we are doomed and challenged to seek the strength to see more, not less."
Arthur Miller (American Playwright 1915-2005)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:09 pm
Posts: 8593
Caprica wrote:
Hey Six,
I can totally relate. I grew up with 3 brothers and my mom was a Cub Scout den leader. I was expected to do girl chores while my brothers only had to mow the lawn and take out the trash. There were 3 of them, so they didn't have to do much, yet I always had dishes, dusting, and vacuuming. I watched my mother spend hours with my brothers helping them with pinewood derby cars, while I got nothing. No achievement days or Girl Scouts. I have a lot of resentment about it.

Are you on the Feminist Mormon Housewives Facebook page? There are a lot of educated, inspirational women over there.

My story exactly. And people wonder why feminists hate men. It is the resentment from watching our brothers play while we had to stay in the house and do house work. And of course my brothers assumed I wanted to be in the house washing dishes while they climbed trees and caught garter snakes. Makes me want to kick my brothers in the balls to this day. Yes, I like sports, I like to kick balls.

_________________
Female, BIC, MIT, TBM DH, 3 kids (1 active in bishopric, 1 inactive Jack, 1 pagan priestess) 5 grandkids, 3 cats, 2 turtles, doz fish.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:50 pm
Posts: 784
Location: TX
Quote:
Are you on the Feminist Mormon Housewives Facebook page? There are a lot of educated, inspirational women over there.


I testify that this is true with every fiber of my being.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:28 am
Posts: 3166
Obliviate


Last edited by Anya on Tue May 20, 2014 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:40 am
Posts: 205
Location: Utah
I'm visiting my parents, and my mother made me watch that video. It was awkward, her getting all teary while I was just waiting for it to be over. It's typical and nothing we haven't heard before, glossing over the real issues and leaving out all the "buts" (women can lead BUT only women and children, women get blessings in the temple BUT it's tied to her husband, etc.)

_________________
"It is better to tell an R-rated truth than a G-rated lie." - Richard Dutcher


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AbrahamsBook, CaCoast, fetchface, Google [Bot], Red Ryder and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group Color scheme by ColorizeIt!